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	<title>Comments on: Would raising fees help solve the school budget crisis?</title>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14967</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 00:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14967</guid>
		<description>Bitterness, pain and anger are one thing..... rudeness is another.  We can all appreciate that
you are pissed off, but leave out the unproductive nasty name calling.  You may actually have some good points underneath all that spouting but it won&#039;t get you anywhere because of
your rudeness.  Being passionate about an issue is to be commended, but couple it
with name calling and ugliness and no one will listen to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bitterness, pain and anger are one thing&#8230;.. rudeness is another.  We can all appreciate that<br />
you are pissed off, but leave out the unproductive nasty name calling.  You may actually have some good points underneath all that spouting but it won&#8217;t get you anywhere because of<br />
your rudeness.  Being passionate about an issue is to be commended, but couple it<br />
with name calling and ugliness and no one will listen to you.</p>
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		<title>By: sborokid</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14955</link>
		<dc:creator>sborokid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14955</guid>
		<description>These are difficult times for sure and it’s hard not to miss the pain and anger in your post.

Keep in mind that many of those willing to pay the increased tax burden are the ones with the least to gain.

They’ll find a way to give their children what the schools will be less able to in the future – tutoring, art and music lessons, language classes, athletic activities, trips to museums, cultural events, etc.

It’s the kids with parents that don’t have the money or time to do those things that will miss out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are difficult times for sure and it’s hard not to miss the pain and anger in your post.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that many of those willing to pay the increased tax burden are the ones with the least to gain.</p>
<p>They’ll find a way to give their children what the schools will be less able to in the future – tutoring, art and music lessons, language classes, athletic activities, trips to museums, cultural events, etc.</p>
<p>It’s the kids with parents that don’t have the money or time to do those things that will miss out.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kendall</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14945</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kendall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14945</guid>
		<description>A little bitter, but I do feel that someone must hold the teacher&#039;s union and the Superintendant&#039;s feet to the fire.  Everyone else has given up something, it&#039;s time the teachers come down of the pedestal and join the rest of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little bitter, but I do feel that someone must hold the teacher&#8217;s union and the Superintendant&#8217;s feet to the fire.  Everyone else has given up something, it&#8217;s time the teachers come down of the pedestal and join the rest of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14718</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14718</guid>
		<description>Al,

I respectfully disagree..... the comment alone speaks for itself.  If a few (or one) on the Advisory Board believes that, that is their right.  I brought it up because I happen to feel it was an unproductive comment and did not belong at this meeting.

I agree with you that &quot;it is about priorities&quot;.  I really don&#039;t look at one side as the good guy
and one side as the bad.   I actually find myself on different  sides of the table depending on the issue. 

For instance..... I respect the Advisory Boards position that the School Budget (sadly )
has to be whittled down even more..... we really have no choice here, as painful as it is.  I attended the meeting  Monday night and  actually felt that the Board had many great  suggestions of areas that need to be looked at and consistantly there was push back from the School Committe that &quot;it&#039;s needed&quot; or &quot;it&#039;s necessary&quot;.  I don&#039;t agree that keeping the fees low is more important than keeping a teacher.  Prioritizing is not easy but it is now neccessary.

Another example; I don&#039;t know the details or how these numbers were arrived at (maybe textbooks were replaced within 2 years, etc) but a cut of 37% in textbooks and 22% in instructional materials which effects every single child seems high (which I believe follows previous cuts from former budget years).  To then have Dr. Gobron push back when an increase in athletic fees or parking permits is suggested is ludicrous.  Really.  Prioritize is right.  IT HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE!  Of course it is difficult and perhaps uncomfortable to ask families to pony up more money for non acedemic activities (even if it is a part of the whole child education process) but to take textbooks and materials out of our kids hands (and perhaps even a hit to technology) is CRAZY.  Here I side with Advisory. Tough 
choices have to be made.  I ABSOLUTELY agree that in times of fiscal distress it is legitimate to reexamine our core responsibilities to each and every child.

Another example of being on different sides depending on the issue; I do believe that the educators do know best when deciding just how many special ed. teachers or aids should be in a classroom along with a teacher.   I have an 18 yr. old senior at Algonquin (along with
a 5th grader) and I have been volunteering in different capacities for all the years I was
given the option (up until Trottier).  I  have been in the classrooms, in the librarys, etc. 
since l997..... I see firsthand the need.  I see that the aids (whether they
are mandated  by  IEP&#039;s or not) contribute greatly to that particular childs day but also
allows the classroom teacher to teach.  On issues of teaching all our children effectively, 
lets leave it up to the educators.  Throwing numbers out in the air about how many
aids another  town has in their classrooms  is irrelevant unless you also show me numbers relating to reading levels, MCAS scores, success of SPED program, and perhaps even teacher retention rates.  

There is much at risk here and because of that hope to continue to attend these meetings and continue to question both sides of the table. As parents and taxpayers we all need to take a look at the big picture and hold all sides accountable. We also need to keep ourselves informed and participate.  As intimidating as
it may sometimes feel to participate in these meetings I am willing to risk showing my
naivety to keep myself in the loop and be better informed. I appreciate your reply Al and
hope to keep the discussion going in a focused, fair  and healthy manner. 

-Pat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al,</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree&#8230;.. the comment alone speaks for itself.  If a few (or one) on the Advisory Board believes that, that is their right.  I brought it up because I happen to feel it was an unproductive comment and did not belong at this meeting.</p>
<p>I agree with you that &#8220;it is about priorities&#8221;.  I really don&#8217;t look at one side as the good guy<br />
and one side as the bad.   I actually find myself on different  sides of the table depending on the issue. </p>
<p>For instance&#8230;.. I respect the Advisory Boards position that the School Budget (sadly )<br />
has to be whittled down even more&#8230;.. we really have no choice here, as painful as it is.  I attended the meeting  Monday night and  actually felt that the Board had many great  suggestions of areas that need to be looked at and consistantly there was push back from the School Committe that &#8220;it&#8217;s needed&#8221; or &#8220;it&#8217;s necessary&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t agree that keeping the fees low is more important than keeping a teacher.  Prioritizing is not easy but it is now neccessary.</p>
<p>Another example; I don&#8217;t know the details or how these numbers were arrived at (maybe textbooks were replaced within 2 years, etc) but a cut of 37% in textbooks and 22% in instructional materials which effects every single child seems high (which I believe follows previous cuts from former budget years).  To then have Dr. Gobron push back when an increase in athletic fees or parking permits is suggested is ludicrous.  Really.  Prioritize is right.  IT HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE!  Of course it is difficult and perhaps uncomfortable to ask families to pony up more money for non acedemic activities (even if it is a part of the whole child education process) but to take textbooks and materials out of our kids hands (and perhaps even a hit to technology) is CRAZY.  Here I side with Advisory. Tough<br />
choices have to be made.  I ABSOLUTELY agree that in times of fiscal distress it is legitimate to reexamine our core responsibilities to each and every child.</p>
<p>Another example of being on different sides depending on the issue; I do believe that the educators do know best when deciding just how many special ed. teachers or aids should be in a classroom along with a teacher.   I have an 18 yr. old senior at Algonquin (along with<br />
a 5th grader) and I have been volunteering in different capacities for all the years I was<br />
given the option (up until Trottier).  I  have been in the classrooms, in the librarys, etc.<br />
since l997&#8230;.. I see firsthand the need.  I see that the aids (whether they<br />
are mandated  by  IEP&#8217;s or not) contribute greatly to that particular childs day but also<br />
allows the classroom teacher to teach.  On issues of teaching all our children effectively,<br />
lets leave it up to the educators.  Throwing numbers out in the air about how many<br />
aids another  town has in their classrooms  is irrelevant unless you also show me numbers relating to reading levels, MCAS scores, success of SPED program, and perhaps even teacher retention rates.  </p>
<p>There is much at risk here and because of that hope to continue to attend these meetings and continue to question both sides of the table. As parents and taxpayers we all need to take a look at the big picture and hold all sides accountable. We also need to keep ourselves informed and participate.  As intimidating as<br />
it may sometimes feel to participate in these meetings I am willing to risk showing my<br />
naivety to keep myself in the loop and be better informed. I appreciate your reply Al and<br />
hope to keep the discussion going in a focused, fair  and healthy manner. </p>
<p>-Pat</p>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14705</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14705</guid>
		<description>From what I have learned, towns cannot charge for bussing outside of a two mile limit in the K-6 grades...that has to be offered to students free of charge. Towns can charge for bussing within a two mile limit (and for 7 &amp; 8 grades) but the town has to have provide &#039;safe and adequate&#039; passage ways for the &#039;walkers&#039;. Our biggest problem is our sidewalks and more importantly Route 9. Also, remember since students change schools every two years, the amount would be in a state of flux each year. For the amount of revenue &#039;charging&#039; would generate, it may not be worth it. As for the high school, since we are a regional school district, the town is not allowed to charge for bussing. The bus contract has been re-negotiated from a 3yr to a 5 yr contract...this has saved the Algonquin budget $131,783 in addition to the $40K savings for K-8.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I have learned, towns cannot charge for bussing outside of a two mile limit in the K-6 grades&#8230;that has to be offered to students free of charge. Towns can charge for bussing within a two mile limit (and for 7 &amp; 8 grades) but the town has to have provide &#8216;safe and adequate&#8217; passage ways for the &#8216;walkers&#8217;. Our biggest problem is our sidewalks and more importantly Route 9. Also, remember since students change schools every two years, the amount would be in a state of flux each year. For the amount of revenue &#8216;charging&#8217; would generate, it may not be worth it. As for the high school, since we are a regional school district, the town is not allowed to charge for bussing. The bus contract has been re-negotiated from a 3yr to a 5 yr contract&#8230;this has saved the Algonquin budget $131,783 in addition to the $40K savings for K-8.</p>
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		<title>By: qwe</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14703</link>
		<dc:creator>qwe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14703</guid>
		<description>You ignorant  people on all sides of the argument. Why are you going along with more increases? Have you average folks had any increases in the past 10 years, for some 20 years. What kind of shape is your 401K in. The robber barrons at Fidelity have done you no favors have they? Now it&#039;s higher parking fees, more to play sports (the best way to keep kids off crack, getting pregnant and the Facebook/MTV culture). It is just a sneaky class warfare tactic because the power knows that the upper income people will go with it and the folks on the government payrolls back it as well.  Less affluent folks in town will be kept from participating as fees coninue to rise. You have to start where the costs are. Un-funded state mandates (stop voting in libs and democrats - all politicians, clear them out) in special education and teacher salary and benefits (keep our teachers but have them eat the same manna we eat). Of course the upper income people in the higher end neighborhoods of Southboro can pay and will pay because they don&#039;t want their precious school day care interupted and they want their kdis to go to the so-called best universities after HS. You average folks better get out and say no at the voting booths (dont approve overrides and increases) and hold the snobs and the teachers unions feet to the fire. Or you will be eating less (they aren&quot;t) and turning your thermostats down further so the union led pay/benefits and your liberal state un-funded policies that are forced on our schools continue to rise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ignorant  people on all sides of the argument. Why are you going along with more increases? Have you average folks had any increases in the past 10 years, for some 20 years. What kind of shape is your 401K in. The robber barrons at Fidelity have done you no favors have they? Now it&#8217;s higher parking fees, more to play sports (the best way to keep kids off crack, getting pregnant and the Facebook/MTV culture). It is just a sneaky class warfare tactic because the power knows that the upper income people will go with it and the folks on the government payrolls back it as well.  Less affluent folks in town will be kept from participating as fees coninue to rise. You have to start where the costs are. Un-funded state mandates (stop voting in libs and democrats &#8211; all politicians, clear them out) in special education and teacher salary and benefits (keep our teachers but have them eat the same manna we eat). Of course the upper income people in the higher end neighborhoods of Southboro can pay and will pay because they don&#8217;t want their precious school day care interupted and they want their kdis to go to the so-called best universities after HS. You average folks better get out and say no at the voting booths (dont approve overrides and increases) and hold the snobs and the teachers unions feet to the fire. Or you will be eating less (they aren&#8221;t) and turning your thermostats down further so the union led pay/benefits and your liberal state un-funded policies that are forced on our schools continue to rise.</p>
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		<title>By: susan</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14702</link>
		<dc:creator>susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14702</guid>
		<description>Paul, I&#039;m not 100% sure, but I recall hearing at some meeting or the other that the state does not allow towns to charge for bus service. Someone correct me if I&#039;m wrong.

That said, at the Advisory Committee meeting on Monday night, Superintendent Gobron announced they&#039;ve made changes to the school bus contract that will save Southborough about $40K next year. There will also be savings at the regional level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, I&#8217;m not 100% sure, but I recall hearing at some meeting or the other that the state does not allow towns to charge for bus service. Someone correct me if I&#8217;m wrong.</p>
<p>That said, at the Advisory Committee meeting on Monday night, Superintendent Gobron announced they&#8217;ve made changes to the school bus contract that will save Southborough about $40K next year. There will also be savings at the regional level.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14700</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14700</guid>
		<description>Pat:

I dont think there is anyone on the Advisory Committee that does not understand the value of these extracurricular activities. But there are 2 important principles involved here.

First, it is about priorities. The budget approved by the School Committee calls for laying off 6 teachers. The fees in question do not cover the costs and so there is a net subsidy in the school budget for these activities. Given that there is a reasonable case to be made for raising fees and the sums of money are significant (enough to fund a teacher), what the current budget implies is that keeping these fees low is more important than keeping a teacher. Life is about choices and that looks like the choice that has been made. It is up to you to judge if you agree with the choice. 

Second it is about responsibility - I dont think there is anyone on the Advisory Committee that does not recognize our shared responsibility to provide quality educational opportunities to the children of our town. But in an era of fiscal distress it is legitimate to ask what are the core responsibilities. Yes, there are clear social benefits to after school programs but I am also asked by people &quot;Why should I subsidize flag football after school with my tax dollars? Isn&#039;t that the responsibility of the parents of the children?&quot;

Nearly 9% of all our property tax accounts in town are in arrears. Unemployement and underemployment has had a material effect on residents of our town. Senior Citizens did not get a social security increase this year. The town is facing a serious decline in non tax income. In this environment the opportunities for increasing revenue by large tax increases to fund pay raises for teachers, and other public workers is questionable. So, we find ourselves having to look at all available options and significant cuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat:</p>
<p>I dont think there is anyone on the Advisory Committee that does not understand the value of these extracurricular activities. But there are 2 important principles involved here.</p>
<p>First, it is about priorities. The budget approved by the School Committee calls for laying off 6 teachers. The fees in question do not cover the costs and so there is a net subsidy in the school budget for these activities. Given that there is a reasonable case to be made for raising fees and the sums of money are significant (enough to fund a teacher), what the current budget implies is that keeping these fees low is more important than keeping a teacher. Life is about choices and that looks like the choice that has been made. It is up to you to judge if you agree with the choice. </p>
<p>Second it is about responsibility &#8211; I dont think there is anyone on the Advisory Committee that does not recognize our shared responsibility to provide quality educational opportunities to the children of our town. But in an era of fiscal distress it is legitimate to ask what are the core responsibilities. Yes, there are clear social benefits to after school programs but I am also asked by people &#8220;Why should I subsidize flag football after school with my tax dollars? Isn&#8217;t that the responsibility of the parents of the children?&#8221;</p>
<p>Nearly 9% of all our property tax accounts in town are in arrears. Unemployement and underemployment has had a material effect on residents of our town. Senior Citizens did not get a social security increase this year. The town is facing a serious decline in non tax income. In this environment the opportunities for increasing revenue by large tax increases to fund pay raises for teachers, and other public workers is questionable. So, we find ourselves having to look at all available options and significant cuts.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14675</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 05:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14675</guid>
		<description>Have I missed some of the conversation but I haven&#039;t seen any discussion regarding fees for taking the Bus to school.  I would not be looking forward to potentially greater congestion in front of the schools in the morning with &quot;parent-drop-offs,&quot; but aren&#039;t there a number of students in the morning &quot;getting a free-ride?&quot;  What about using a &quot;pre-paid ticket&quot; to ride the bus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have I missed some of the conversation but I haven&#8217;t seen any discussion regarding fees for taking the Bus to school.  I would not be looking forward to potentially greater congestion in front of the schools in the morning with &#8220;parent-drop-offs,&#8221; but aren&#8217;t there a number of students in the morning &#8220;getting a free-ride?&#8221;  What about using a &#8220;pre-paid ticket&#8221; to ride the bus?</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.mysouthborough.com/2010/03/02/would-raising-fees-help-solve-the-school-budget-crisis/#comment-14626</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysouthborough.com/?p=15023#comment-14626</guid>
		<description>For the record, I am all for paying an increase in athletic fees for participating NOT for
increasing any current flat fee charged at the middle school level.  I am also a believer of
getting kids involved at the middle school level and offering  as many opportunities as possible.

My feathers get a bit ruffled when Advisory board comments that &quot;some parents view these 
programs as a cheap after-school babysitting&quot; alternative.  Pretty small minded comment,
I think.  

-Pat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record, I am all for paying an increase in athletic fees for participating NOT for<br />
increasing any current flat fee charged at the middle school level.  I am also a believer of<br />
getting kids involved at the middle school level and offering  as many opportunities as possible.</p>
<p>My feathers get a bit ruffled when Advisory board comments that &#8220;some parents view these<br />
programs as a cheap after-school babysitting&#8221; alternative.  Pretty small minded comment,<br />
I think.  </p>
<p>-Pat</p>
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